Hmm, I adimit that I enjoy all three season a lot. Then again I only really wacth the show for the magic and the characters. I do agree with ditto526 A's to me is the best, then StrikersS and then regular Nanoha. That what I think anyways...
Who would in a fight? Nanoha or Saber? Archer or Signum?
The first and second seasons were definitely better than StikerS from a plotline and character development viewpoint. However, the parts that made StikerS better than the first two, in my opinion, were the fact that everyone was older and the establishment of the Takamachi family. Everything else was really just complete crap.
I also liked how they went went from magical girl to military, but like you said, it certainly ended in "disaster." They really needed to have a much more serious story if they were going to make it work, but they decided to make Jail Spaghetti the main antagonist. -__-
To refute one point of yours Sans, shouldn't our main characters have ridiculous power levels though? They've technically fought harder enemies than Jail Spaghetti and the LOLnumbers. Precia and the knights were/are definitely in another league. Personally, I like seeing powerful characters, well, remain powerful. I dislike Force for a few reasons (namely Touma being the protagonist). However, the other reason is that I don't think the Hucklebein (is that their name?) are worthy adversaries for our heroes/heroines either. Yet, our heroes are defeated by them (I stopped reading when Hayate got stabbed from behind).
The point of my refutation is this: we come full-circle; the adversaries are just not up to snuff. I don't enjoy seeing characters I like lose to stupid tsundere girls (referring to that one chick with the minigun in Force), lame protagonists, and generic bad guys; it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. If the writers would just get off their asses and create decent enemies for once, then yes, I wouldn't mind seeing Nanoha or Fate lose.
Hm, I don't think I actually refuted your point, lol.
I also wanted Subaru, Teana, or Quattro to die, but of course, that was never going to happen. I'm not entirely sure why they decided to seriously injure Vita like that (maybe some hidden character development? SUSPENSE? A feel good moment at the end when Hayate seriously comes out of no where? She literally came out of no where...) I can't say I didn't like the scene, for a character in StikerS, yes, StikerS, was close to death. However, Vita is my secret favorite character, so I definitely didn't want her to die there. Maybe, they actually succeeded in building tension. xD
Edit: I should probably proofread my posts before saving them.
Philosophical juggernaut, disabled Bruce Lee
Sansker maybe you are right about that StirkerS being okay. They did try so hard in trying to expand the series, so much that they did not really do anything. It also help that StirkerS was the session that showed me the amazing thing call Starlight Breaker. Err...I to go now so I send the rest of my message later.
P.S. Vita is azaming!
Who would in a fight? Nanoha or Saber? Archer or Signum?
Vita is great. I give her that. Also I like her fight when she goes destroying everything in her way to the main engine. My point about the power-levels is that with those ridicules amount of power came also a lot of power ups. Nanoha is a S+ mage but she has: Aggressive Mode, Exceed Mode, Blaster Mode 1, 2 and 3… so, what is the point of having power levels if any single character has a dozen or so power ups system in their pockets that they can put out whatever they need to. It makes useless trying to measure their power. Also Jail and the Numbers were, in fact, high level criminals so Loliknow, you are wrong, usually Nanoha and company face even weaker and lamer bad guys.
So my point is that if they are so powerful and skillet they should have better villains and better fights. One thing I like in Force was that, at less in the fist chapters, the Hückebein look like actual villains and treats to Nanoha and the rest. Of course all of that gets ruined by the horrible chapters that follow Signum’s defeat. When you make a fight scene you need to show that the heroes are skillet and capable but also that the villains are too. In StrikerS the villains are lame or generic and even with number, technological and armament advantage on their side they all lose. I mean the cyborgs were suppose to be living weapons and three of them get defeated by a lowly power level mage who was injured and just have a few months of training (A.K.A Emo-chan, I mean Teana)
You're so in rage, Sansker. You criticize these itsy bitsy things from the anime for every chance you get. Hahaha! I can't even remember half of what happened. I just think StrikerS contained the best NanoFate and family moments. It's what kept me going to actually pay attention to that anime, but now...eh, Force and ViVid. ViVid's okay...I just feel like there's no storyline to it, just the daily life of a little girl. And as for Force, villains again? After putting the protagonists' ass to stop the JS incident and the other incidents, I don't think I want to endure with the fact that they're going to war again with a bunch of wannabe Final Fantasy-Clothes-Stealers!! >:[
"So my point is that if they are so powerful and skillet they should have better villains and better fights. "
That's what I'm trying to say! Jail and the numbers were "high level" criminals, but their characterization was childish. They didn't possess the qualities of a skillful but deadly villain. There was never a point where I thought, "uh oh, the numbers are going to win this time!"
They were a joke to me. I laughed at them when they attempted to be serious. I felt the same way about the "Hückebein." Their attempts at being villainous were hilarious.
@HC: They do remind me of FF characters now that you mention it.
Edit: Um, this is embarrassing. I was sort of drunk when I wrote this lol. Please take that into account when responding xD
Philosophical juggernaut, disabled Bruce Lee
The bad guys in StirkerS were pretty lame. Look at those drones that Jail used, I mean how hell are you going take over the world with them? They were just so stupid in design. Well the last type (IV is that the right one?)was okay looking...But how the hell did Nanoha even lose to it in the first place? Wait a better question is how the hell did Jail get away with building all those bots in the first place? You can't go the dollar tree to buy them! I kind of understand the numbers being created in sercet...but really how could the TSAB not notice these things?
I think a major villain is need in the series. One so storng that not even the aces could defeat them in combat. Well that's what I think anyway.
Who would in a fight? Nanoha or Saber? Archer or Signum?
From what I remember, Regius and those random floating brains were funding Jail until he betrayed them. You're also correct in saying that the robots were lame; they were very much so.
I also agree that the series needs a villain who can actually do something...I don't know, villainous? Being able to actually beat Nanoha and Fate in a fight would be a step in the right direction though. I feel like the writers need to make it so the audience hates the villain. I hated Jail, the Huckebein, etc not because of their villainous acts but because of how stupid, lame, cliche, and boring they were/are.
Philosophical juggernaut, disabled Bruce Lee
So the TSAB high council funded him? That make sense in a way...but no one notced large shipments of bots to a terrorist? Wow, they can of suck at spying on people...Still how did Nanoha almost get kill by one on that on mission. You know the one they mention for what? 5 seconds?
It's great that you agree with me LOLIKNOW. I want to see this warlord dude that goes from destorying entire systerm for nothing more the kicks and giggles. Not some "posion that will destory the world" bull. Maybe they should bring in that evil Nanoha from Another Crisis? (Antoher Crisis is a fan made comic about a Nanoha that went very wrong verus our good old white devil.) That would be shocking no?
P.S. LOlIKNOW, I can't wait for that new character you were talking about!
P.S.S. I am not being pushing right?
Who would in a fight? Nanoha or Saber? Archer or Signum?
Haha, you're not being pushy. I'll eventually get to it; things are getting a bit busy with classes at the moment.
I would probably have to write it out on a word document first. I get very indecisive with custom characters and what not (check out the avatar thread for details xD)
Philosophical juggernaut, disabled Bruce Lee
It may look I’m in rage but actually I’m not. The only reason why I keep with “the attack” is that I’m a fan of the series. I say before I love this series and I hate being how a very poor written story line is taking it down and down with little to no hope of getting better. And yes, probably I’m just annoying but I can’t get it over. The fails with the power levels go to a far beyond place that just lame antagonist. The limiters and AMF technology is inconsistent and just forgettable, the plot points come and go, a lot of themes are just mentioned or not, and in my opinion the series has a lot of nerve to expect we just to swallow these thinks with suspension of disbelief.
I agree with you guys about villains. But the Dark Nanoha from Another Crisis won’t work. Is like Reinforce I or Unbreakable Darkness, a very powerful character with some dark or sad past who is bad for X or Y motives and wants or has to destroy everything until gets save by Nanoha and company by being blasted into goodness with very destructive attacks. Is the same formula that the franchise has use over and over until gets a little boring. Reinforce did it, Vivio did it, UD did it, hell even Thoma did it. And don’t get me wrong Another Crisis is good, but also repetitive. We need some bad guy with actually goo plans and powers. No more villains with lame motives or tragic personas stories. I mean a person that just happen to be oppose to the Aces and that don’t get turn into a good guy when gets defeated. Someone who I look at him/her and make me believe that can actually win if Nanoha and the rest don’t get serious. Will be a better class of villains.
By the way the TSB High Council was just a lame reap of the SEELE persons from Neon Genesis Evangelion. Come on, the three board with the TSAB shield and they talking about Jail being a great tool but also a treat and how he is a great inversion… is the same scene that the one in the movie of Evangelion when SEELE launch its great scale attack on NERV or when they talk to Gendo or about him. The worse part? They just came out of nowhere and like that just get killed by Due. I was like: “Oooook… What the fuck was the propose of that?” So far still makes no sense.
I think they need to make more classy villains
villains that
1. not laughing like a madman that he is in his every appearances. Okay you want an obvious evil villain but do you have to make him that tacky and lame? Or at least make it like Precia, someone you would love to hate but a competent villainess
2. not creepy, upping the villain's creepiness by making him impregnate those who technically his daughters is just downright urghh. You want parent that impregnate their children? do that on a hentai series but please not on Nanoha
3. no cheating power, I don't mind the heroes defeated mind you. Fate did it, the Wolkenritters did it but they defeated Nanoha in fair fight albeit a bit one sided not because they have cheat code skill like in Force.
I have an idea: Let's compile a list of villains we consider to be just downright sinister. I'll start...
-The Joker (DC universe)
-Dr. Doom (Marvel Universe)
-Magneto (Marvel Universe; I kinda like him better as a good guy though...)
-Cao Cao (Romance of the Three Kingdoms)
-Morgan Le Fay/Mordred (Arthurian Universe)
-Venom (Marvel Universe; He's actually an anti-hero but a good one at that)
-William Hamleigh (Pillars of the Earth; My god he was wretched.)
-Saruman;Sauron (Lord of the Rings)
-Darth Maul / Darth Vader / General Grievus (Star Wars)
These are only a few but the list goes on!
Philosophical juggernaut, disabled Bruce Lee
Hmm...good Idea k-n1n3, this series need a person that everone hates so much that they want to kill him. Maybe that could be the lesson of the series? Even if someone really bad, that does not give you the right to kill? But yeah I think it's time for a new villain that is going to blow are minds? A villan list? Sure here some bad guys we all hate or like.
Horus (Warhammer 40k)
Miyo (When they cry)
SEELE (You guys should now where this come from.)
P.S. LOLIKNOW, I understand class can be very very long process. So take your time and make it good! :)
P.S.S Pillars of the Earth was very good series no?
Who would in a fight? Nanoha or Saber? Archer or Signum?
I will definitely try my best with my character(s). I'll probably make both a male and female character just to balance things out.
I actually read the book for PotE. It was one of the best novels I've read in years. It was an emotional, tense roller coaster ride that kept hooking one in (and no puke at the end.)
I forgot to mention Shion from Higurashi. She goes INSANE (just like everyone really).
Philosophical juggernaut, disabled Bruce Lee
So you are saying that the book is good? The tv miniseries of PotE, was very good. You should try it out.
Hmmm...Do you think that if StirkerS was darker and edger, it would do better?
Who would in a fight? Nanoha or Saber? Archer or Signum?
Yeah, I'd recommend the book for anyone to read, and I was actually thinking of picking up the show at some point. It's completed, right?
Also, yes, it's really just a personal bias of mine, but I think the series in general could use more tragic elements in it. Things always seem to skew in the direction of our protagonists, and the villains, even though they're not really too good to begin with, always get the rotten slice of the pie.
Honestly, it doesn't need to be on the same level of tragedy like Elfen Lied, Higurashi, etc, but I believe it certainly needs to get a bit darker.
They also tried to make StrikerS dark at some points but just failed.
Philosophical juggernaut, disabled Bruce Lee
That is the point. StrikerS try to bring some adult themes to the anime like: the TSAB politics, Hayate being used just by her powers, the desire to make justices at any cost, etc. While the first two seasons also has some adult like child abuse, they were play as the “child” part of the story. I mean Precia’s torture let some emotional scars on Fate but she is able to get it over really quickly thanks to Nanoha and the dream in the Book of Darkness. The series always has this positive tone of any magical girl anime (Madoka is a particular case) that everything will be all right if you just try hard and trust your friends and family. Also the dialogs and the fact that the main characters were just 9 years old make the series soft and cute. In StrikerS they decide than since work so well in the other two seasons the same formula will work out here two.
The main problem that I get with StrikerS at the beginning was the tone of the series. When I expect a more mature or adult way to see the things and by that I mean just realizing that sometimes even if you work hard and think positive things can go terrible wrong. The world is like that and nobody is always happy. Of course I don’t mean something like Madoka but a few steps in that direction. But, as I say before, they didn’t. While the series has all the new elements like the military structure and the adult topics and some sort of tragic stories… they never change the way the characters look the world and how thinks work. The tone of the series was the same but now with the impact of these new “adult” topics that star to feel a little awkward. Also the characters has the same dialogue as they were still 9 but they were not. So in some scenes Nanoha was the optimistic hyperactive type of girl and in others was the mature, calm and wise instructor that never makes any mistakes and is perfect as hell… and the pacing is horrible.
Also I love how the things get some random. One time Vita point out that Nanoha is just too soft with the rookies, allow them to address her casually as “Nanoha-san” instead of “captain” or “ma'am”. Nanoha answers that is just a minor issue and says that if she has time to punish them for minor things then she better use that time to teach them properly so they will became better soldiers. When I can agree with Nanoha at some point I have also to disagree. In a military organization as the TSAB is spouse to be there is no place for indiscipline of any kind and the instructors know this. The reason is that discipline has to become a part of the soldier so he or she will always stick to it and that way keep calm under stressful situations. That is the logic behind the insults and screaming that we all see in the war movies. I admit that movies tent to exaggerate but there is a reason for that even from a story point of view. Then Nanoha saying that the rookies don’t address her properly is a minor issue destroys the whole idea of the TSAB being a strict organization and she being the best instructor. And they always point out that, like the way Teana's brother get kill and disgrace or the fact that Hayate has to work very hard to proof herself as a good commander. Also how everyone says that Caro and her dragons are dangerous and she will never be anything but problems… is kind of weird.
There is some minor moral discussion about justice and what means to be born as a living weapon or as a person and that no matter what we are all human but that is just what I get after think about it a lot. The message, if there is any, is unclear. So the “seriousness” just vanishes. Also one think that always make hit my head against the wall is how every single character in this series love training. And just look ViVid: they finisher their exams and what they decide to do? Going for 4 days to an old enemy’s house for combat training… and I mean combat training. I guess will be fine if it just was they practicing they martial arts stuff but if combat training… just silly. In Force they are not better.
I see... your points Sansker, the random parts of StrikerS was enjoyble. I thought it was nice to see that the characters are not singled minded. I think that the idea of Justice should have been explaned more. Like I said earlier they just try to hard for StrikerS. My biggest problem is how the TSAB act...It is so, not professional.
Who would in a fight? Nanoha or Saber? Archer or Signum?
The TSAB is NOT a professional institution. They are more like a kinder or even some kind of boy-scouts... with girls and without cookies.
My guess, the TSAB units shown (especially the Ground Forces) are just reserve units and not the active ones. If nothing else, Regius is probably a REMF (Rear-Echelon Mother******) with too much ambition and authority... as well as too many inexperienced ground troops in his command.
Sansker you made me laugh, the TSAB are a bunch of boy/girl scouts! It makes me wonder how they get anything done...Wait, the TSAB controls lots of worlds right? What happens if they all rebel against them?
Who would in a fight? Nanoha or Saber? Archer or Signum?
I’m afraid you are making a big mistake here, you are thinking with adult logic in a world with child logic. So here nobody will ever consider that being under the TSAB government is bad. If they do then they are a bunch of idiots without character that will throw aside their dreams and fights if they realized that “is the wrong way” (The Florian sisters from Gears Of Destiny). Seriously even in As the Wolkenritter were doing it wrong because the Book of Darkness will kill Hayate anyways. Also Graham is an idiot. My point is the only way that is always right is the protagonist way and point of view. There is no place for other philosophies there for there is no place for dissidents.
*pokes head through a window*
Oh, hey, guys.
I haven't posted in this thread in a while, eh?
Well, carry on!
*leaves the room*
(I'll have something worthwhile to say in a bit, don't worry *wink*)
Philosophical juggernaut, disabled Bruce Lee
Then we should wait, I suppose.
It seems that you are right again Sansker,I am trying to use adult logic for a anime...I still think they should have a evil "side" of the TSAB, and I mean really evil. I am just sick of how black and white they are...It would nice to see some grey and cast down there false utopia no? Anyways maybe I am being to mean or whatever. The point is how does the TSAB even trick planets into their's fold? I now it is not the way they "protect" people....
P.S. I miss Belka....:{
Who would in a fight? Nanoha or Saber? Archer or Signum?
Technically the TSAB High Council is the “evil” side of the TSAB. The brains have been controlling the TSAB in the shadows and make some experiments to secure the dominance of Mid-Childa as the only inter-dimensional potency. Such experiments include the Unlimited Desire project, which created Jail Scaglietti also they Were involve in the first Combat Cyborg Incident that ends with the adoption of Subaru and Ginga on the Nakajima family (Because Quint’s DNA was stolen and used in the creation of both of them so she and her husband see the two suppose killing machines as their daughters). Of course that never seems to bother others since they never talk about the TSAB being brutal or dictatorial in any world they administrated. In the Sound Stage X they mentioned how most part of the JS Incident is highly classified in other to protect those who get too involved on the case and the fact that the TSAB was working with terrorists and control by a bunch of brains. This also makes the TSAB reorganize their command structure to prevent something like this to ever happen again. How? Don’t know, my guess is that they just decide to stop using minor characters on their command positions and star gave Hayate, Carim, Lindy, Chrono and the Tree Legendary Admirals all the power since they are well know to all of us. This ways they fool all the people hiding the truth and never mentioned it again.
This ridiculous explanation, however, can explain how Vivio is having a normal life. Since her origins are top secret. So secret that she tell everything to her 10 years old friends and the Numbers constantly refer to her as “Your Majesty” even in public… Ah… How this make sense again? Anyway since all of this is top secret nobody knows, or is suppose to know, Vivio’s true identity as a perfect clone of the Saint Kaiser. So perfect that Einhart actually manages to see with her ancestor memories how Vivio is a complete different person from Olive despite the fact that Jail says that Vivio is the first and only succeed of the Project Fate to bring someone back from the death… Do the writers even read their previous stories when they start another one?
"Do the writers even read their previous stories when they start another one?"
That, my friend, is quite a question, indeed.
Honestly, they definitely do not. This is my vision of the writing team:
Writer A: How can we make this plot more nonsensical?
Writer B: Let's add floating brains this time!
Writer C: Derp....
Writer A: BRILLIANT!
Philosophical juggernaut, disabled Bruce Lee
Yeah it is kind of sad when fanfictions have a better plot then the actual show...I am very sad that the TSAB high council is the evil in the show, I weep at the thought of such evil being consdered to be "evil". The only good thing about the TSAB is the creation of the combat cyborg. (Subaru for the win!) Oh well!
Who would in a fight? Nanoha or Saber? Archer or Signum?
Well here I have something I must disagree with it. StrikerS is, in my opinion, the worse of the three seasons. But I will give that A’s is the better (that is maybe the reason why all the PSP games are from that time). However I consider the first season superior to StrikerS. The thing is that StrikerS change a lot the tone of the series, or at less try, so that is why is a little shocking watch the thing back quarts. The idea, I suppose, of the military-magic stuff taking over the magical girl was a little clever but ends in disaster. As far the TSAB is suppose to be like any other military group but in fact rather than a strict organization is more like supporting for the main characters (Actually in the first two seasons work like that with the Artha and it was just fine) StrikerS try to make a big deal of a pile of nothing. So in the first season the early episodes are generic, boring and forgettable, agree but then the series take the rode to its great ending. StrikerS on the other side is just confusing, no well focused, with a lot of introduced characters and a bunch of side plots that don’t fit each other. In the first seasons we lack of sub-plots, while in A’s the sub-plot were just the cats twins and that is why we don’t lose focus. So I will disagree calling StrikerS the superior season.