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Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Nanoha StrikerS

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Sansker's picture
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Ok, I’m done; I need to get these out of my chest. Like my very first comment on this page I should commence complaining like a bitch about the things I hate of a Magical Girl anime with space ships, cyborgs and clones… God I’m such a nerd. Well, here I go. The things I hate the most about StrikerS:

1 – Too many characters I believe these is one of the most difficult things to take from StrikerS. I mean here we have a ton of new characters, aside from Fate, Nanoha and all the others form A´s and the first season we have to deal with the rookies, the pilots, the nuns, the military, the “villains” and a lot more that I just don´t care. Have to say… WTF? In the first two seasons I always feel that some characters may be have no propose but even then were supporting characters, in StrikerS I still have no idea who is suppose to be the protagonists and who are the extras. There is a lot of characters and we spend time with so many of them that I just can´t follow. Many of these people have little to no impact in the history and were put just to show they were there. Take for example: Yunno, the brains of the TSAB, Agito, Regius, Vice, half of the Numbers, Shari, Lucino, the other half of the Numbers, and so on. There are a lot of these guys and many of them are new, so we have no reason to care about them and the history is no helping with that. At all. If you want to be supporting cast the stay out until you are needed.

2 – The Forwards (A.K.A Subaru, Teana, Erio and Caro) Ok, I know that these characters have their fans and everything but I will make just one question: Why? Really, why? If StrikerS was suppose to be a sequel from A´s then why we need, want, ask or have new protagonists? What about these guys is better than Nanoha and Fate? Subaru is a little of Nanoha, energetic, optimistic and with that “joie de vivre” but when Nanoha was charm and cute Subaru is just annoying and stupid; hell Nanoha as 9 years old was a lot more mature that Subaru as 15 years old. Teana is Fate but without all the blonde´s interesting qualities, when Fate was mysterious, elegant and dark Teana is just ridiculous. As for Erio and Caro… just shotacon and lolicon, because everyone else was now 15 o 20 years old we need some children to keep the “Magical Girl” title. Seriously these two guys were pointless, boring and cliché, even more than Teana and Subaru. These 4 characters lack the charm of Nanoha and Fate, but still take over the show like if somebody like them, even before we know them. So… yes, they piss me off

3 – The good ideas. I have to be just; there were some interesting ideas here and there among StrikerS. I mean the thing about Jail being not just the man who started Project Fate but also that he knows about Precia and want to take control over Fate was a very clever idea, the way they putted was not. Just remember Jail, he want Erio, Subaru, Ginga, Lutecia, Fate and everyone to go with him for… no good reasons. Really the soul proposes for all that “I want this power” was just to be an excuse for the members of Section Six fight. Other good idea throw aside was Vivio. This cute little girl who comes to the series when the producers realized that Reinforce II was more annoying than moe so they need other cute little thing to make us go “awww” and Vivio was the answer. As I said, was a good idea. I mean that child it had everything to make the series good. She had relation to the main plot, she had Nanoha (and Fate) take care of her and we could have interesting moments and character development form Nanoha-mama and Fate-mama, but what do we get? Absolutely nothing. Yes, a few good scenes here and there but were kind of just show the relationship already established rather that establish the relationship, did you get what I mean? Vivio kind of like Nanoha just because she had a ponytail, Nanoha show little to no doubts about being her mother (Even the idea from Vivio call her “Nanoha-mama” came from Nanoha herself) but in the final battle we finally know about all the development we lost. Again wasn’t the best way to put these ideas. And for the rest is just that with all the individuals’ histories taking place at the same time they don’t fit each other very well, more kind of push each other trying to reclaim our attention.

4 – The training sequences. Do I need to say more? Even in the final battle, after all that training to make them fight as a group they just split and go fight on their own… too much for team work, huh? Jesus! All that makes these series unnecessary slow. Was a lot of bullshit. By the way I think it had been better if the flashbacks in the final battle were about the training and the time we waste in the training were used to development. That way it would have made more sense.

5 – The villains. Here is when I lost faith in StrikerS. Jail and his sexy but incompetent army of cyborgs… What was the point? Jail is just a cliché villain that makes ALL the mistakes possible and kind of rejects easy ways to win. I mean he has a lot of resources and an army of powerful cyborgs but never uses to the full potential. If this guy weren’t so stupid if will be hard to make it easier for Nanoha and company to defeat him. For a person who has supposed to be the master of science and lost technology is just a cartoon villain. Even Marvin the Martian and Wile E. Coyote will be a lot more of a threat to Section Six, at less they know what they want. What was Jail plan? They speak about “the doctor´s dream” but never explained, also is just me or Jail is kind of a pervert? He has an army of beautiful teenagers in thigh costumes and has a lot of women nude in tubes… I´m just saying. By the way the Numbers are even worse. How the hell are we suppose to take them seriously? Sein, Dieci, Otto… they are a bunch of idiots, and the others have the exact same personality, the personality of toilet paper. By the way the fact that all of them were pregnant with Jail´s baby was a lot of creepy.

6 – Lutecia, Zest and Agito. Ok, first Zest… is just so stupid, I can´t take him seriously. Let me see, he was a friend of Regius and the boss of Subaru´s and Lutecia´s mothers, Regius order him to back off the investigation they had but the imbecile here decide to go and get himself and all his subordinates kill. So after that brilliant plant he make other one: He remains with Jail in order to hunt down Regius but instead of going after him Zest help Lutecia to collect the Relics for Jail, and spend years in that. So finally he remembers his original goal in the final battle and go to confront his former commander to ask him if he sacrifice his friend´s unit (Despite the fact that Regius tell him no to go, so actually the only one to blame is Zest. Who disobeyed his orders; go in a risky operation without backups and get all his men kill) anyway, crazy Zest here don´t get an answer because Due enter and kill Regius, so Zest kill Due and is ready to make things right by capturing Jail and helping Lutecia, but Signum tell him that meanwhile he was busy being an asshole they manage to secure both Jail and Lutecia so all the thing he made were just stupid. Then Zest for no very good reasons confronts Signum in a final duel and get himself kill (About time if you ask me) and Signum says that he die with his honor as a knight and she will make sure to clean his name bye no telling anyone the kind of idiot Zest was. Really, make absolute no sense. He wasn’t mental control or something like that so why he works for Jail? If he just wants to help Lutecia made a terrible job, keep in secret that was actually Jail´s fault that her mother were in coma. Agito is just there, and her cloths look like a cospaly, a bad cosplay. Lutecia was nice but mostly because she do not speak that much. And as I said in the ViVid/Force treat I hate what they did to her.

Well to be fair with StrikerS wasn’t all that bad… have a few good moments here and there. Sometimes the show truly knows how to go amazing but never get too much of it. The concept of a magical war anime is not new, but here is why you should thing before you act. The Nanoha franchise is NOT that good when you look the story. The best part of the show is the characters. The designs of both Nanoha and Fate (Also the rest of the cast, but mostly those two) are nice, cute and a blessing for the eye. Then these designs combine with strong well settle characters and we have what make this series good: the NanoFate.

And then the questions to you people: Did you like StrikerS? Did you hate it? Why?

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God damnit, Sansker. You beat me to it. I was literally going to start my own StrikerS thread in a couple of minutes.

I will be adding my own walls of text to this thread in a little bit. Look forward to it!

HUEHUEHUE

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I honestly didn't mind StrikerS. The first time I saw the information for StrikerS was a 26-episode so I was extremely excited that there will be much more of the "friendship" (yuri subtext). And first episode was fine, it was the time where Subaru was involved with the Coastal Airport 8 Fire Incident, (I was like, yay a new character to be involved with them!) and Nanoha Takamachi would come to save her. Hmm, but the first few episodes kept me hook since the training period between Teana, Subaru, Erio, and Caro were pretty much interesting to see. The drama (to me) was the time when Teana tried to do something that it nearly hit Subaru. Wow, seriously...I think that was just ridiculous: trying too hard, you know? Teana was such a blasting buffoon for feeling like she's not good enough to be a member including Subaru. Subaru and Teana worked too hard for their practice battle. I think it's just not worth of seeing especially the moment Nanoha shoots Teana for unconsciousness. And hell, I was freaked (afraid) out by that since I never expected Nanoha to do that towards her trainee. I feel like the creators just made it to kill time. No need to see the wrath of Nanoha Takamachi either.

And I would have to agree with Sansker, I didn't like the sci-fi in it, it made me much more confused with the characters since THERE ARE so many characters I had to memorize. Jail was the crazy villain, but he's not the crazy stupid villain. I just think that he should have better reasons why he should mess with the TSAB. And LOL for me because I forgot about what happened to the second half of the episodes. I don't even know why they had the church to support TSAB. =/ Can't they handle it on their own? Oh wait...too many antagonist characters. Weird ships, and I also hate the fact that Hayate would be controlling those ships. Just give me some fighting stances and incantations from the Book of Darkness, yo.

Yeah, honestly retarded why they had to fight for themselves. Fate was about to get killed when she was fighting with Scaglietti, Teana was left alone by three numbers (the darn combat cyborgs) , Subaru had to fight her sister, Nanoha had the obligation to save her daughter on her own, Vita was trying to survive but was later saved by Hayate, Erio and Caro? - I honestly forgot what happened. But I guess you can take a look at it as a lesson. After all that hard work, they had to realize that they could the best they can to fight what's in front of them.

And yeah, the first time I took a look at the first Nanoha series, it was the cliché of mostly magical girl's purpose: to save the world; to prohibit danger from the people; to prevent this from happening again because someone got hurt from before. Honestly, it wasn't as good as Mahou Shoujo Madoka Magica (Was a sick anime). >_>

The NanoFate and family moments was what I focused the most on so bleh. I like StrikerS because of that, but you know...it really didn't have the feel of "hints." Sure they share in the same bed, sure Fate was taking off her jacket while Nanoha was sitting on the bed with her night attire, sure Nanoha and Fate are always together, but they were discussing the whole time about the training sequence. Honestly, it's not enough for me for a 26-episode. .__. I have slept with my best friend in the same bed, but nothing happens anyway. Sureee, some cuddling, but I feel like stating that they're in the same room and in the same bed aren't exactly lovers, but really close friends. Ugh, I'd like to be a little selfish and wish that they'd give more hints since I just figured out that a magical girl anime can never give off implied yuri. =3=

But overall, StrikerS was okay including the creator's idea of giving off two mothers taking care of Vivio. There aren't two 19-year-old girls in an anime who look after a child so awesomeness for them. Usually, it'd be a guy and a girl who'd take care of an abandoned child...hmm, hence, I like StrikerS. =P

Basically, I share the same reasons with you so I don't need to rephrase yours.

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Hearts Cross wrote:
The NanoFate and family moments was what I focused the most on so bleh. I like StrikerS because of that, but you know...it really didn't have the feel of "hints." Sure they share in the same bed, sure Fate was taking off her jacket while Nanoha was sitting on the bed with her night attire, sure Nanoha and Fate are always together, but they were discussing the whole time about the training sequence. Honestly, it's not enough for me for a 26-episode. .__. I have slept with my best friend in the same bed, but nothing happens anyway. Sureee, some cuddling, but I feel like stating that they're in the same room and in the same bed aren't exactly lovers, but really close friends. Ugh, I'd like to be a little selfish and wish that they'd give more hints since I just figured out that a magical girl anime can never give off implied yuri. =3=

Mh... I don't really know how you could get that wrong. Nanoha and Fate didn't just casually slept together casually like we do with friends, they choose to live together and share a bed every night with their most important important person, in a giant apartment big enough to accommodate 3 families, as two wealthy adults that could have opted to get a room for each one to have their privacy (which is very important for Japanese culture). Their behavior in front of each other show how close and used to their relationship they actually are, you see them wearing sexy night clothes/lingerie in front of each other, the kind of stuff that you would wear only for your lover, and they act as if they have been doing this for years. I mean, their relationship is not shown to us as they being two teenagers in love, as we usually saw in other similar animes with an "immature love", Nanoha and Fate were very mature for their age at the first and second season, and now they seem to be very mature for young adults too, even in subjects like their love life, since they got a lot of experience in their professional life, and this necessary leads us to come to the conclusion that they have a lot of romantic experience too together in the years before Strikers, so most likely they became a couple at a young age, and have been together since then.

Well, more importantly, I think the great thing about StrikerS is that they shown us how a series can include a established lesbian relationship just as another element of the series and not make a big fuzz about it, yuri is part of this franchise but has never been its center, and it probably should remain like that. Also this is a nice change from the typical "get together" scenario for yuri animes, to a situation where we have a couple and we see them moving further ahead to the point of forming a family, with Fate fulfilling her dream of giving a good life and a warm family to a girl in the same circumstances as her.

I would talk as StrikerS in general but I don't have much time now to write something of that length in my bad English now. Maybe later.

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You have some points there. I agree with you than Nanoha and Fate are very mature for her age, and probably because they have being working since they were 9. That is true and the relationship they show is very mature and, also, boring. There is a reason for the entire "get together" scenario in yuri anime, is interesting. The formula always work and is a lot better than just skip the development of a relationship and show the results. That could work with minor characters like Chrono and Amy, no with the protagonist. Also make the characters that mature and complete is just a cheap way to avoid character development. This is an anime. We need some stuff to make us care and like the characters. Even for a sequel perspective StrikerS fails because we start in a complete different world and environment. The first season and A´s were held in Unimari, when Nanoha and Fate were little. StrikerS, on the other hand, happens on Mid-Childa when Nanoha, Fate and Hayate are part of a large military/police force and now are 19 despite looking more like 25. There is a lot of time we don’t get to see, such much stuff happen back there and they just randomly talk about it for or perpetual disgust.

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Not to mention that they went "Ooops not important enough" to events like Nanoha nearly dying during a mission. I believe scenes like those are sort of important, and they should be explained in more detail...not just a tool to make Teana look like even more of an idiot.

They skipped a lot of time between A's and StrikerS, and while I like the adult versions of Fate/Nanoha more, they really should do something about that time leap.

They also cut Suzuka and Arisa straight out of the story haha (not that they mattered too much anyway).

I agree with A. over the fact that they shouldn't need to do too much with the yuri content, but also agree with Sansker that they should have done more with it in the show. There weren't very many emotional scenes between Fate/Nanoha, and it really just looked like they forced Fate at times.

I also like to see my favorite characters being dynamic as well, and the writers really did a good job at keeping most of them static -____-

Ah, but Vice on the other hand, he was dynamic....ohwait, he's an irrelevant minor character

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Sansker wrote:
There is a reason for the entire "get together" scenario in yuri anime, is interesting. The formula always work and is a lot better than just skip the development of a relationship and show the results.

I think in the general case what you say is the better option, but I'm not sure about Nanoha's case. In Nanoha, I think that skipping the get-together stage of their relationship worked pretty well overall, to give the fans what they wanted while not using too much screentime for yuri (in a series where the yuri is still secondary to the action) and to give the artists and writers a lot of freedom to do what they want to fill this intentionally big time gap between A's and Strikers, bringing us lots of nice fluffy NanoFate art/fanfiction with a lot of freedom :)

And maybe this is one of the reasons why this couple is so popular, we get a yuri couple in a stable relationship as adults with a daughter of their own, wich we don't see very often, and we also have a big time gap before StrikerS that opens a lot of room for get-together scenarios for fanfiction and doujins, that as you say is usually the most interesting part to read about in a yuri relationship (even though I personally prefer to read some happy Takamachi family fluff ^^)

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Okay, I just had to stop watching "Land, crack, fetch, take 2 I'M CONLEY WOODS!" on Channelfireball to post (2:30 AM. There is much to do about nothing). The allure of responding to this thread is just too great at the moment.

I want to begin by saying this: LMAO. Sansker, your post was amazing and hilarious. I agree with EVERYTHING (let me bold/underline that for extra emphasis) you laid out in your argument. I could have rambled on and on about all of the retarded bullshit that occurred in StrikerS, but thank you, you did it for me.

Okay, time to unleash the walls of text (which honestly aren't going to be walls anymore...which makes me sad. However, less for me to write!
)

StrikerS, as a whole, wasn't my favorite anime, but it wasn't the worst either. I think I've watched it twice, but honestly, there really is no storyline to be had there. It had so many lame moments, out-of-place serious business moments, and moments that frustrated the hell out of me.

The cast of characters was ridiculous. The only combat cyborg I liked was Nove...because she's actually kind of cool in Vivid. The designs for the new characters felt very uninspiring and just far too simple. Oh, they're wearing skin-tight jumpsuit things? That's some cool battle gearz bro. Don't even get me started on Subaru's barrier jacket...short jean shorts? Really? And ROLLER BLADES?

OKAY, The roller blades get their own paragraph. Are you kidding me? Out of all the devices, weapons, armors, clothes, shoes, etc etc you could have chosen for a character, roller blades were the choice? No offense to anyone who likes roller blading and actually thought they were cool, but, in my honest opinion, they were beyond lame. What are we in the 80s/90s? I would much rather see Subaru riding a shark with lasers cannons attached to its head than roller blades. Alright, alright, they're just roller blades, and Subaru was a childish, overly optimistic, and joyful character...they fit her well. I digress...

Jail Spaghetti was just as generic/cliche as they come. Oh, man, what a villain. Ah, those are some real threatening robots you have there. They float, fly, and have a shield...SICK bruh. I just love how out-of-nowhere he is too. When they first find out that he's behind the robots, Fate's like, "Oh, I've been hunting him down for a long time." Wait, really? I've never heard of this guy before StrikerS...did I miss something here? I agree that him being behind project Fate and what not was interesting, but they never really elaborated on it. Harharhar, I am teh "infinite-greed." Did anyone else think his glove was just as lame as the roller blades Subaru uses? RED CABLE ENERGY ROPES. Out of all of the useless weapons one can have, he even beats Caro. Her dragon summons were powerful, but her device was kind of dumb. I have to give Spaghetti some credit though, because somehow he managed to take down Fate with his Red Cable Energy Ropes (RCER for short). Before I move on, he laughed maniacally in every scene he was in. I was so over that even before he did it the first time, but no, he continues to do it over and over and over. He, as Sansker pointed out in his initial post, was soooooooooooooooooooooo creepy. Naked girls everywhere and he impregnated all of the combat cyborgs...wtf.

Anyway, Sansker was right on with just about every other character. I do have to say though Vita is a bad ass. She got run through at the end by that invisible robot, and still blew the engine room up. Kudos to you, if I had a giant gaping whole in my chest, I think I'd die pretty fast.

One thing, in my opinion, that they should have touched upon more but, of course, didn't was the corruption within the TSAB. Regius and the high council (heard of those guys before, right? I had no idea they existed until Regius mentioned them once) were pulling strings and manipulating people behind closed doors the entire series. Hell, they had Jail Spaghetti working for them until he conveniently betrayed them (saw that one coming three hundred million miles away). Regius even believed that Section Six and Hayate were just sacrifices. Man, aren't high-ranking government officials just so dependable? Honestly, they really should have went further into it, but it's a moot point because they didn't. They decided the "huehue awaken ancient technology, have it slip right out of their hands because of Hubris, and hand the good guys the win on a silver platter" route was far better and much more eloquent.

One last topic before I end this little tyrade: this show was WEIRD.
-Jail was obviously a pervert; he had naked women in tubes, 10-14 year old girls working for him, and impregnated most of them. He also held Lutecia's mother captive, did experiments on her, and had her naked in a tube as well.
-This show was downright uncomfortable to watch at points. I think the most awkward scene for me was when Rein got naked and went into that tube thing. Honestly, whenever someone got naked, it was just awkward. The writers were certainly taking bets on how many times they can squeeze in naked girls into scenes.
-The cliche changing into the barrier jack skits were just so annoying. I noticed that the female characters got changed piece by piece, but Erio got his jacket and boy shorts (lol so lame) put on instantly.
-Am I forgetting anything? I'm probably forgetting more awkward scenes in that show, but those are just a few.

Time for top 5 favorite characters in the show:
1. Nanoha/Fate (they count as one >_>)
2. Hayate/knights
3. Raging Heart
4. Vice
5. Garyuu
6. NO ONE ELSE

Some of you may ask, "um, who's Garyuu and Vice?" My answer: Exactly.
Garyuu didn't speak and shed tears of blood from his eyes...best summon ever.
Vice drives a helicopter around and shot a little girl in the eye when he was supposed to be a top sniper...best marksman EVAR.

Closing: I think I touched upon most things I wanted to rage over. If I think about this anymore which really I shouldn't, then remember something I wanted to post about I shall add it.

My two favorite parts of the series were when Nanoha cooled Teana's head down a bit (she's so stupid), and when Quattro (omfg, she was too obnoxious and pissed me off every time she spoke) got befriended. "She's befriending her...and she's going to befriend me too! OHHHHH MYYYYYY GGGGGAWWWWWWWWDDDDDDDDD!!!!!" *gets starlight breaker'ed through an entire ship* For all intents and purposes, Quattro should have died. I really wanted her to die. Why did she get to live and Due, Regius, and Zest had to die? Her stupidity far outmatched any of theirs.

I also loved when Vivio fell over and Nanoha had to take that moment to turn it into some twisted training exercise. Fate just wanted to be a good mama too D:

One last thing, if you couldn't tell, very unnecessary fan service (especially for loli-esque characters) irks me to no end.

Hearts: I also liked Madoka Magica a lot. The story/action/tragedy was far better, but none of the characters really compared to Nanoha or Fate tbh.

Speaking of tragedy, I think this series, as a whole, needs more tragedy in it. I don't think there was a single moment where I thought something terrible was going to happen to any of the major characters. The only thing that did happen was only explained through a flashback, which is pretty lazy on the writer's part. A serious event like Nanoha nearly dying seems to be more worthy for inclusion than watching Teana cry over being normal.

Edit: I wrote walls of text anyway lol.

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I am always speechless whenever the admin speaks out about Nanoha and Fate. But yeah, agreed to what you say. xD

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I hate being speechless. Just don´t suit me, at all.

Ok, I’m not going to be as extend like in my first post but I have a few things to say. I think will agree that StrikerS is not the best part of the Nanoha franchise. I have read the mangas, see the anime and the movie and in general the entire franchise is not that great. As I say before the story have the best and strong part in the characters and the relationships. Yes is an action series BUT that is a part of what it is. Perhaps is why StrikerS fail. Aside from all the problems we have already mentioned (By the way nice post LOLIKNOW I agree with all you say) we have to see how the writers just trow aside the best part of the entire show and… well lest just say that they should hear the advice Fate gives to Nanoha: “Make sure you don’t overdo it”. Is obvious how they have little to no idea what they were writing: is a magical-war anime? A political one? Science fiction? Star Wars with talking weapons? All those elements don’t fit well if you don’t know what are you doing.

I really need to say that I get angry at these fails because I am a fan of Nanoha. They could make it better if they just try. Now that you mentioned something that always hate are those two episodes when we spend the time with Emo-Teana. I never like this girl, now her existence is indifferent to me, but I never like her. So those two episodes we have to deal with her life… don’t cheer me up. Is just how they put Nanoha´s anger, shooting down her student to unconsciousness, which makes it all worse. Also the part when all the rest of the Section Six is just ok with Nanoha for doing it and nobody even bothers to explain things until Signum punch Teana in the face. They look like a bunch of jerks to me. By the way I always wonder how in anime people can take massive blast of energy in the face without any permanent injury but a punch in the face always gets so painfully red.

Al the situation was to show Nanoha´s past, mostly the parts we already see in the other seasons. And lack of the principal detail: why Nanoha get so hard? I mean the whole “magic damages body” is just mentioned there and never talk of it again. Also Signum says there is moments when you need to get overdoing and the moments we saw Nanoha overdoing were that kind of moments. Then they don’t even mention the accidents, how it happens, why, where, the exact situation. When they finish with all that unnecessary exposition of the past seasons and the few scenes from Nanoha´s accident I was like “Ok... So the point here is?” and I think it was: don’t overdo at less there is a nice soundtrack and you are in the final episodes. I think that the episode was more disappointing that anything else. I expect to see more Nanoha but all we get is OTHER characters talk about how good is Nanoha and how Teana is a bitch.

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Sometimes I get the feeling that a reply/post is just too good to respond back to. So, I just leave it be for a couple of days or so until I find a suitable response. Or, I hit the tank for an extended period of time and try to formulate something.

Anyway, yeah, they were trying to be far too many things, and the execution was far from satisfactory. I also agree that this franchise, in terms of story and action, isn't exactly top-tier, but the relationships are key. The only thing making me come back for more, honestly, is Nanoha/Fate. If I had to say what my "Top 10 favorite characters from anything" were, they would certainly be in the top 5 (wow, this list would be tough...I have a lot of favorite characters -_-)

I will keep saying it, but I believe that this franchise is long over due for something serious. StrikerS, Vivid, and Force aren't exactly what I had in mind either. I will be the first to say it: the tragedy genre is definitely my favorite. William Shakespeare's tragedies were dark and twisted at times. When I see a series like StrikerS, which, let's be honest, is full of fluff, I go, "ugh...can something (possibly bad) happen so we can see some emotion or development?" I read a fanfic the other day called "Invicible" by Off-White Devil (it's one of the recently bumped threads), and I thought it was great. That's an example of something I may want to see happen (Sorry, Fate!)

I also agree that we see more of every other character than Nanoha/Fate at times. I wonder when the franchise is going to return Nanoha and Fate to the "Main Protagonist" role. They seem to be side characters nowadays which sucks because Touma is a waste of space. I don't mind Vivio all that much (Vivid has far too many characters to care about...)

One final thought: God, I hate Teana lol. She whined far too much about everything.

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We need to take some time to respond because otherwise the heat of the moment or the lack of inspiration will ruin the debate. Also is a little boring when we all have the same opinion so is nice to have different points of view. Then again I have read in other forums threats like this about Nanoha Force, ViViv or StrikerS and things get a little ugly. There are some passionate people out there, more like fanatics. So I like to debate but always staying in a good mood, I’m saying these because what I see really hits me and hits other people really hard.

Well, back to StrikerS. As franchise Nanoha is always in the classic “happy-endings”. We see that in the first season and A´s, even StrikerS for that matter. But I believe the things start to get a little darker in tone in A´s. In the second season the little “darker” parts where actually well played and I could go with it. StrikerS, The Sound Stage X, Force… all of them get darker but I don’t think was something good. I mean, take StrikerS. There were moments in the show that make me wonder, this is a kids show or not? I mean, lest be honest, the happy moments that rule almost the entire series were cute in the first seasons and annoying in StrikerS. I read that StrikerS will be in the future so I expect something to get a little serious, darker and oldest but the dialogue, the attitudes of the characters… all exactly as in the first two seasons, where is the change? So I thought it will be another kids show and quite frankly was a little disappointed. Then some weird moments came and I was shocked. When the Numbers take down Giga cutting her arm in the process and showing her all covert in blood, the naked scenes from almost every single female character, Jail getting all her “daughters” pregnant, Vivio running almost naked in the sewers, Vita being stab on the chest by a giant kind of spider-robot, Verossa (That guy has “rapist” wrote on his face). Is shocking put those thing together, then I don’t know how to take the show.

That also influence Sound Stage X, when we have some annoying Subaru moments (That I suppose were meant to be cute) and then Teana reading a message write with blood in the wall. Also in Force I already have say my opinion. We see the Hückebein kill a hole bunch of Vandin workers and then we have the characters just acting like retarded clowns. ViVid also suffer from these, particularly in that scene when it seems that Chantez cut Vivio in half but is just an illusion so she can see that with her actual level she is going to be defeated in the Loli Tournament of Death (WTF? That was so unnecessary… also the fact that the one who loses so badly in the end is Chantez so makes even less sense)

So the tone of StrikerS also confuses me. Sometimes is just a boring kids anime and other try to get so serious. By the way I just love how the series try to create suspense and fails, this are by far the weirdness things I have to point about it.

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Would you have prefered if the series was 51 or more episodes instead of the 26(FAIL)episodes with such a (FAIL) ending? Because that would gi more room for Character and Story developement ...and maybe more depth to the whole series...Well to say the truth I nearly gave up watching StrikeS after all those whining from Teana, and also:

Who the hell was that Nanoha that shoot down her own Student(which should have left more then a few scraps and even more of a Trauma!) with the words:

''Someone needs to cool her mind''(Not exactly those words but you get the gist ;) )

Well let's look away from all the negative talking!

for example we could just as good debate what would have improved the series (No kidding! Everyone of you might've got ideas (except those that are already mentioned and might as well have destroyed the Magical Girl Theme...Let's not get into that territory because your already the master of it Sansker(little joke by the way because you've already tated your complains and same goes to the others in this post))

Why does everyone only has negative things to say?

Well:

1. Without that traumatized little girl Vivio the whole NanoFate shippers would've got those creative(especially those moments when little Vivio steps onto her love-making Mothers XD)works! And we all know(Yes we all!!!)that without Vivio the whole NanoFate shipping would just be the same as the Yu...(I can't write it! I just can't write that goddamn nickname!) but you know what I mean don't you!?

2. Without Jail(an villian I would surely give a much more impressive backround than that f*cking tube thing!)little Vivio wouldn't have been created! What a great lose that would have been! Seriously!

3. Without Subaru(as some sort of side-main-chara)the whole season would have been better...well without her the childish aspect of the series would have been laid on Vivio (Maid)Erio and (Mistress)Caro...and if that isn't enough without Subara we surely wouldn't make jokes about ''rainbows are more straight then her''

4. Without Teana(no barking Sanskers and LOLIKNOW!I know what you think of her! Seriously let me finish!) Subaru wouldn't have any possible Love interest(that groping scene XD and those flashbacks shortly before her(demise)deathmatch)

5. Without us fans(Western and Eastern alike(think about the english sub thing included in the Movie 1st(serously couldn't they give the movie a better name?)this series would.Have.Never.Be.Made!

That's it from me(maybe later more if I have cured from my influenza)!

''Yuri is the allmighty power which makes any wonder possible!''

Follow your Dreams and Love will await you on the way.

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Sha Yurigami wrote:
Without that traumatized little girl Vivio the whole NanoFate shippers would've got those creative(especially those moments when little Vivio steps onto her love-making Mothers XD)works! And we all know(Yes we all!!!)that without Vivio the whole NanoFate shipping would just be the same as the Yu...(I can't write it! I just can't write that goddamn nickname!) but you know what I mean don't you!?

It wouldn't be the same, because Nanoha and Fate would have more private time to spend together xD
Anyway, if it weren't for Vivio, Nanoha and Fate would be still together in Strikers, I don't think that the hypothetic situation that you're considering would have changed the status of their romantic relationship. Vivio only changed their life making their go one step further and form a family, and I will be very grateful for that forever :) I don't think how you think that without Vivio NanoFate will be the same as a random pairing with no canon or fan support.

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Hmm, a 50 episode season? Well, if they actually gave the show a worthy antagonist and semi-decent supporting characters, then sure, a 50 episode season would have been great.

My thoughts on Nanoha shooting down Teana go like this: I think it was necessary for Nanoha to shoot her down. Teana's mind was clearly full of turmoil, confusion, and "negative vibes." The scripting for that scene actually made sense to me, and the line, "Shall I cool your head down a bit?" while may be off-character for our kind protagonist, was a perfect fit. What better way to "cool down" someone who's going insane with insecurity than a nice, refreshing energy blast to the face? The fact that Teana essentially ignored everything Nanoha tried to teach her would frustrate even the best of us. It's also not like she just decided to blast her own student without serious thought either...it seemed like Nanoha had a hard time with it afterwards (see the scene when Signum punches Teana in the face for reference). Nanoha probably saw a little bit of herself in Teana (queue the scene with the bad flashback explanation of Nanoha almost dying during a mission). I also thought it was correct for Nanoha to ask why Teana/Subaru were fighting so desperately when it was just a training exercise. It happened during one of their mock battles after all. Teana really didn't need to prove anything to anyone; she, as we have seen, was far more skilled than she gave herself credit for. Teana just lost herself on the way.

I guess the series needs drama or we'd just get more fluff from Subaru ;]

Honestly, I don't have a problem with the character "Jail Spaghetti" per-say. What I did have a problem with was their characterization of him. He was just so generic and cliche; it got frustrating at points. Let's be honest for a bit, he was clearly a pervert and creepy to boot. He could have made a cool "Illusive man" like character in Mass Effect 2, but, instead, what we got was the villain of Troll 2 (that movie is so bad that it's great). Actually, the villain of Troll 2 was hilarious; Jail was not. He was surrounded by far too many young girls -_-

One last thought this time around: Passively aggressively calling me a dog isn't very nice D:

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I didn't call you a dog XD tis was just a joke cause I've feared some would get a little heated...bad experience with some friends of mine about certain criterias of the characters ;p

I think the same but as I have never seen Troll 2 I wouldn't really know what the villian was like...But you sure described him interesting maybe I'll watch that move ;)

''Yuri is the allmighty power which makes any wonder possible!''

Follow your Dreams and Love will await you on the way.

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haha I know. I just wanted to respond to it somehow, and that's how I decided to go around doing it xD

Troll 2 is an okay movie to watch just once. I've seen it an upwards of three to four times now, and it has really lost the original "bad movie but hilarious anyway" feel to it. I also don't think there's a Troll 1...which is kind of funny too.

We do get the classic "OH MY GOOOOODDDDD!" line from that movie though :]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y_mX17UAxM&feature=related for reference (OHHHH MIIOOO DIOOOOOOO!!!!!)

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Well I have to say that in order to improve the series there will be a few changes I make. The Forwards will not be there; also the whole Section Six staff with their names and boring useless back history will go away (Vice, to be more specific) Then we have to make some adjusts: The Numbers will be without personality (I mean they will be like actual living weapons instead of whatever the hell they were supposed to be in the original series), Jail will not be an artificial mage, Fate and the rest will get to know about jail because of his crimes so nothing of “I have being hunting him for years”; Regius, the brains, the “Legendary Mummies”, Carim, Verosa and the rest of the Church will not be there or their roles will make actual sense (Except for the brains that was so stupid I don’t want to talk about it) Then I will center the story around Nanoha, Fate and Vivio, using the rest of the time to work with the Wolkenritter and Hayate (Rein too, but she is so useless than it doesn’t matter) The limiters will not exist also the law that forbids mage to fly in the cities in order to avoid plain crashes (And I’m not even kidding here, is canon) So there are other changes but that will be a start.

Also the NanoFate have very strong canon and fan support from the first two seasons even without StrikerS or Vivio. The only fact will affect is that maybe we will get to see some development in the relationship instead of the results. I’m sorry, but I will keep that we need to see some canon development for the NanoFate, just the results is a little boring.

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The limiters, in my opinion, were pointless. They never did anything worthwhile with them; I was expecting them to get into some hopeless battle where taking the limiters off was actually relevant. However, they took them off for just about every major battle -__________- I would have liked to see them battle serious opponents (not those stupid flying android things), begin to lose the fight, and have a timely removal of said limiters. Alas, that was never meant to be.

I actually liked Carim a bit, but she, of course, didn't have a major role. The only temple knight we saw the entire time was Schach (spelling =/). I was expecting to see more from the church, but we really didn't.

Lol, Vice's backstory was funny though and completely random.

I definitely agree with the fact that the series should return to being Nanoha/Fate oriented. I watch the series for them; I certainly don't care at all about Touma and his struggles of being a horrid protagonist. I sort of like Vivio but not all of the 300000000 characters that surround that series though.

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I read that in order to create a story you need a goal. I mean for a narrative perspective as long as the characters have a goal they will continue to look after it and if there are other character with an opposite goal that generates antagonism and all of that creates story. Is a very simple formula, just thing about other animes. In the Nanoha franchise the goals always are put aside. I mean in the first season the goal was to collect the Jewell Seeds but then they just ended with the battle between Nanoha and Fate, in A´s was the hunt of the Wolkenritter for Linker Cores to complete the Book of Darkness and then again they ended with the cat twins “killing” the knights, in StrikerS the goal was… I suppose the Relics but they don’t even get that much attention, so there was no real goal we can see and that is other of its fails. Is a shame because I have been reading the sequence of the new Nanoha´s PSP game, The Gears of Destiny, and is a lot better than StrikerS and when a video game have better plot, character development and narrative than the anime there is something terribly wrong there.

The limiters aren’t new in anime but yes, in the Nanoha franchise are pointless. By the way I just love how they make a point now that the magic could destroy the universe when we see Fate, Nanoha, the Wolkenritter, Hayate, Reinforce, the defense program, Chrono, Yuuno, Arf and the giant magic cannon of doom being together in a relative small area fighting and shooting spells without any harm, consider that (aside for Arf, Zafira and Yuuno) everyone was AAA rank or more is pretty obsius that the limiters are just bullshit. The ones they use in ViVid make more sense, was for training still a little weird use so modern and rare technology for a children´s tournament but then again that tournament is like the dream of every single loli in the universe so I digress.

And Vice was so boring, and cliché. The other pilot they get for the chopper was even worse she ended flying the Wolfram ship in Force. Because as we all know flying a helicopter is like flying a space battle ship… seriously there is times when I wonder if the author is even trying.

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"but then again that tournament is like the dream of every single loli in the universe so I digress." -ROFL.

It's so god damn true LOL

Let's be real though, flying a helicopter is like piloting an AC-130 which is like directing an interstellar space ship. They all fly, shoot stuff, and travel at the speed of light; it's so easy a caveman can do it (15 minutes can save you a bunch of money of car insurance too btw *winks*).

I haven't seen much of the games though; I had no idea who the materials were until a few days ago actually.

Limiters can be an effective story-telling device when used correctly. However, StrikerS clearly didn't, and if I'm not mistaken, wasn't it policy or something that made them have to use limiters in the first place? I also remember Carim (or Chrono) mentioning that it was a pain to get them removed, yet they got them removed almost every battle with little to no downside.

Vice was just another random side/minor character with no real important role in the plot. Why they gave him a back story is beyond me (one which was kind of drawn out too).

This franchise seems to lose focus on the original plot quite often. I mean, it branches off into so many different lines because of all the random irrelevant characters that are introduced. Let's take Vivid for example (We have pointed out quite a few from StikerS already). What does the battle tournament have to do with Vivio's and Einhart's entwining fates? Hopefully, the author will attempt to tie the two together somehow so it's not a complete waste of time. Oh, wait, the point of the super loli battle tournament is actually this: another outlet to introduce 45 more minor characters we don't CARE about.

Or, maybe it's being used to tie Vivio/Einhart together through fighting? *shrugs*

Yup, maybe we can get someone in this thread who can play the unfortunate role of "Devil's Advocate" for a change. I don't think the two of us are cut out for it xD

Edit: This post seems to flow into different topics at an alarming rate.

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Woot, Someone decided to play Devil's Advocate!

I have to respond to point #4 first. I loved that scene; it was one of my favorite in the entire series. The second, in my opinion, was when Quattro got blasted. You just don't mess with Nanoha when she's pissed off or disappointed.

Yeah, the nanofate fluff was probably the best part of the series, and I always did enjoy the little one liners the devices had to throw in. I actually lol'd when the black dragon came up. They tried to make the huge insect thing look "hard as nails", but the dragon just comes up and takes him down like it's nothing.

<3 Vita btw. She's my #1 secret favorite character (not much of a secret anymore, eh?)

Edit: I really just agree with what everyone says. I never find much to disagree with -___-

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Well… is not that much of Devil's Advocate. Still some points there that I have to disagree.

3 – I agree that the scene when Subaru went berserk for her sister is very badass. But it was Subaru, so I get some sort of discomfort. Then again she is just silly. All about her is just too much. Too much energetic, too much moron, too much food, too much idiot, etc. Also the whole thing about her being a cyborg comes just out of nothing and ends like that. What add to the story that Subaru and Ginga were cyborgs? Just that the brainwashing of Giga makes sense, but seeing how Lutecia and Vivio get mind-controlled to is also irrelevant. Teana is just emo; I swear I think she will be looking like a gothic loli or something like that.

4 – I will be lying if I say I don’t get some sort of amused watching this scene but also I get a lot of: WTF?! I already point out my problems with the episode in general and the scene in particular. Nanoha is a little out of character for me, how anyone even suggest that Nanoha overdo it a little and get “Ok” with that, how Nanoha look like some sort of Higurashi´s character (Fixed in the DVD release though) In the end I only enjoyed because I like to see Teana getting hit.

5 – Just I think it was pointless giving the weapons such complex personalities. Liked a lot Bardiche with his no talking but rather sentimental expressions of care for Fate, and that was more than enough. Hate Mach Caliber, is a little like his master and the only thing could make Subaru even more ridicules was sunglasses and a Mach Caliber having the ability of transform into a skiboard or some crap like that.

6 – Caro is just too bland, and is just there for the moe and magical girl title. Vita consider herself and adult and is tsundere and Rein is just so annoying… then we get Vivo, Lutecia and the rest of the ViVid cast.

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Sansker wrote:
4 – I will be lying if I say I don’t get some sort of amused watching this scene but also I get a lot of: WTF?! I already point out my problems with the episode in general and the scene in particular. Nanoha is a little out of character for me, how anyone even suggest that Nanoha overdo it a little and get “Ok” with that, how Nanoha look like some sort of Higurashi´s character (Fixed in the DVD release though) In the end I only enjoyed because I like to see Teana getting hit.

Oh no, Nanoha was very in character and had a legitimate good reason to do what she did. If you don't believe me, you will have to wait for our release of the doujin "Kimi ni sasageru koi no akashi (English title pending)" :D

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Ok… until then I will keep my opinion. And probably even after the doujin but I will give it a chance. I just have to wait.

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"Hate Mach Caliber, is a little like his master and the only thing could make Subaru even more ridicules was sunglasses and a Mach Caliber having the ability of transform into a skiboard or some crap like that."

Oh my god, I lol'd so hard. You are the best, Sans.

You're right btw. That wasn't a true "devil's advocate," but it was the best we've gotten so far :]

Thanks for posting, Off-White!

Edit: (I edit far too much for my own good.)

I'm intrigued now; I want to see this release you speak of A.

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Hip accessories like sunglasses and skiboards that is what appeal kids these days her action figures will be sold by the truckloads.

—The Master of the Nanoha´s merchandising department: Mecha Nesbitt.

I have to stop watching the Yu-Gi-Oh! Abridged Series. Still believe that is how they decide Subaru´s design.

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"Still believe that is how they decide Subaru´s design."

I would not be surprised xD

Edit: Official, TSAB issued-barrier jacket...jean short shorts...?

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Well, it seems that nobody wants to stand up for StrikerS. Not that the series has no defendable points, more like the mayor point is: this is from Nanoha's franchise. And to be honest even as standalone StrikerS is bad. Fails with the huge cast but is more than just a case of too many characters. I will agree that the series probably will be a lot better with just 13 episodes, like the first two seasons (And those could use the 26 episodes, but for talk about that we shall open a threat) or even with 52 (But in that case we still have mayor problems)

But now we are talking about Subaru and Nanoha being in or out of character, there is one more thing that bothers me. Subaru takes too much for herself, being the idealistic, naïve and hyperactive magical-girl she take that role from Nanoha. In the first seasons Nanoha was the idealist but naïve girl, I actually enjoyed some of her moments like the time she can’t remember the incantation to activate Raising Heart or when she discovers that Yuuno isn’t a ferret. In StrikerS Nanoha has change a lot. Is much more mature and ladylike also we were able to see her actually mad (Now they could work that better but then I remember how went the rest of the show, so I digress) then she lost that charm of her for do what she thinks is right despite being a little ignorant about a lot of things. Just the old discussion about seeing the results but lost the development, when comes to characters is even worse. Then again Subaru take the role and Nanoha lost that part. Then she stars to look more like a secondary character rather than the protagonist. Nanoha is just too dam perfect, no that she can’t make mistakes but rather that she has now a lot of experience and power, so any obstacles she faces it will take just a second to remove. Quite frankly that ruined much of the drama in the final battle. I never believe the Numbers or Jail have any real changes of winning against the Aces (I was hoping Subaru and Teana to die) and the only person who I watch having a hard time was Vita. Then again comes to the ridicules power levels.

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Sorry, i may be one of the few,but i liked StrikersS in fact it was what introduced me to Nanoha and Company, i think that the first season was the weakest of the three
but you needed to have that to introduce the main cast, but i will agree that the second season was the best of all of them, i still liked seeing them as adults and my wife does not give questioning looks now. and yes i still want a nanofate kiss